Ahead of World Mental Health Day on 10 October, Lauren McMenemy caught up with Lee Murray and Dave Jeffery, the editors of new Flame Tree anthology This Way Lies Madness, to hear about mental health stigmas and how horror can actually help us.
I’ve been a big fan of these two for years, not just because of their fantastic work in the horror and dark fiction genres, but because of their empathetic dedication to better representation across the board. So when I—someone who’s struggled her whole life with various mental health issues—heard that Lee Murray and Dave Jeffery were editing an anthology of “short stories from the edge of darkness” for Flame Tree, my heart soared. No pressure, guys, but I’m counting on this being the thing that ends the stigma…
Anyways, tomorrow (10 October) is World Mental Health Day, so it seemed apt to sit down with Lee and Dave to hear more about This Way Lies Madness, and what their hopes are for it. The anthology will be launched at World Fantasycon in Brighton later this month, but is available now from all good book stores.
Over to you, Lee Murray and Dave Jeffery!
(Side note: I did have my eyes on subbing to this one, but, ironically, was in a burnout cycle that prevented me even considering writing 😭)
Tell us about the genesis of This Way Lies Madness: how did it become an idea? Why did you both want to work on it?
Lee: I’d been a fan of Dave Jeffery’s writing for years, particularly his novel Finding Jericho, and also his ‘a Quiet Apocalypse’ series, both of which have themes relevant to this discussion. As a result, I’d been sneakily looking for an opportunity to collaborate with Dave in some manner or another, so when it emerged that we both had a shared vision for improving the way mental health is portrayed in horror—which we discovered as a result of an interview-article we wrote for the Horror Writers’ Association’s Mental Health Awareness month in 2018—I jumped at the chance to work with him. We went on to co-chair the HWA Mental Health Initiative, a tenure which lasted for three years, during which time the committee developed a suite of resources for writers. The response to that initiative has been incredible, with both writers and readers reaching out to tell us how much the programme and especially the dialogue had impacted them. Traditionally swept under the carpet as shameful or taboo, it was if we had given writers permission to talk openly about this important topic. Writers wanted to do better when it came to mental illness in horror. But what exactly was a positive portrayal of mental illness in horror? Did it mean sanitising the story for the sake of sensitivity? While there are some excellent portrayals in our classic horror literature—Edgar Allan Poe’s “The Tell Tale Heart”, and Charlotte Perkins Gilman’s “The Yellow Wallpaper” are examples—Dave and I realised there was a gap in the market, a demand for modern works of horror addressing mental illness and from a range of perspectives, and this became our vision for This Way Lies Madness.
Dave: As Lee says above, one of the key take-aways of our work with horror creatives was their need to understand what an effective genre story looked like and the elements that they should consider when approaching mental health themes. We made clear in the guidelines that we wanted submissions to use metaphor as means to represent themes of mental illness and mental health, and those submitting (especially those chosen for the final Table of Contents) did a fantastic job in this respect. A unique feature of This Way Lies Madness is the individual contributor vignette following their story. This is where the writer gives personal insight as to how their story came to be, and how it represents their own lived experience of mental illness, be that as a survivor, a caregiver or a witness. Our contributors have been incredibly brave and laid themselves bare so that people garner deeper understanding of their story and how mental illness has touched and influenced their lives. They have done this to improve people’s understanding of what mental illness is, and perhaps more importantly, what it isn’t. As editors, we are incredibly humbled by their courage.
“Madness” and mental health can get a bad reputation in dark fiction, and one of your stated objectives for the anthology was to “showcase ‘madness’ in ways that challenge stigma and promote understanding’. What does that sort of healthy representation look like?
Photo below by Mitch on Unsplash
Dave: Any representation that avoids stigmatising language and mental health stereotypes is positive in our view. Ignorance is heavily associated with stigma and stigma heavily impacts upon mental health recovery as it makes the person feel isolated and hopeless. As editors, we had a mandate that This Way Lies Madness was not going to perpetuate the hackneyed representations of mental illness so often associated with the horror genre, with a focus on metaphor rather than trope. Therefore, we wanted to make the anthology accessible to readers who craved authentic representations of mental health issues, to writers who wanted to know how to work with such themes, and to academics seeking high-quality fiction to use as modern-day exemplars of the genre. By drawing together so many differing perspectives, we have curated a book that is truly inclusive. The hope is that it will get people talking, and that those who read it can see themselves and their struggles set out through the stories, that they are seen as more than a diagnosis, and recognise they are not alone.
Lee: With this work we wanted to avoid the tired stereotype of the evil madman who rampages through society terrorising citizens with a chainsaw. Horror has plenty of those narratives. Instead, we were looking for sensitive, beautiful portrayals, still horrific, but framed through metaphor to reveal the inner turmoil of the characters, the deeper motivations for their actions, which although they might seem strange and unfounded to us, make sense to them. To create these nuanced rounded portrayals, our contributors delved deep into their personal lived experience as survivors, caregivers, or observers. They undertook extensive research, and they used their skills as writers to craft imaginative stories which speak to readers by showing a different way to examine mental illness, not with prejudice and stigma but with compassion and understanding.
What are your tips for those who want to represent mental health in their creative works, but are worried about being cliched or contributing to stigmas? Do you have any recommended trusted information sources?
Dave: As we’ve mentioned, our work with the Horror Writers Association—where we were co-chairs of their wellness committee for three years—meant that we conceived, developed and delivered their Mental Health Initiative (MHI) from 2022 onwards. The MHI consists of a suite of resources that help the writer in various ways. Firstly, it recognises that for many creatives, writing genre fiction has been part of their mental health recovery, and this was captured in the dedicated e-publication Of Horror and Hope (edited by Lee and Angela Yuriko Smith) whereby HWA members wrote about their lived experiences, through the medium of essays, poems, short stories and articles. Secondly, we developed the HWA Mental Health Charter that set out the association’s expectations of its members in their approach to writing stories featuring aspects of mental illness. The charter is explicit and is a great basis should writers want some grounding as how to avoid perpetuating mental health stigma in their writing.
These free materials (including Of Horror and Hope) are available to non-members and can be found here.
Photo below by Lynn Kintziger on Unsplash
And what would you say to those who don’t realise there are cliches, and might see nothing wrong with a psychopathic serial killer trope?
Dave: It’s important to note that psychopathy and sociopathy are highly complex personality disorders and not considered forms of mental illness. Psychopathy is a disorder of personality, evidenced by a lack of empathy towards others, and an absence of remorse for maladaptive actions. Sociopathy tends to impact upon a person’s behaviours. The nearest diagnostic label for sociopathy is that of Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASPD) and while there is accepted comorbidity, it does not mean that every psychopath will display aspects of ASPD. The complex nature of these disorders demonstrates how important it is for writers to deeply understand the constructs and contexts they plan to feature in their work.
This, of course, means researching these factors, and researching them well. Focusing on how these disorders affect the person and how they interpret their world, and how they see their place within it, allows for a far better reading experience, rather than merely considering them to be a set of behaviours and actions designed solely for a cheap shock. It’s our view that writers fall back on such clichés when they have no depth of knowledge of their source material. That is why we ask creatives to do better by getting things right.
Lee: This is why Dave has been such an incredible collaborator on the HWA Mental Health Initiative and on this project. His 35 years in the UK’s National Health Service provides us with important insights such as these above. Getting things right, striving to reach beyond the same old tired tropes to offer something that resonates for readers, is the whole point of writing, at least that’s how I see it. As prose writers we certainly have an advantage over film, where I believe many of these clichéd approaches appear. With prose, we can move the pieces around the board as we choose, with no added cost for exotic settings or expansive worldbuilding. We can add more characters, throw in a chase scene, and include an elaborate backstory to serve the story arc and create a deeper, more satisfying narrative. And, most importantly, we can take our readers on a journey through the internal thought of our characters, letting them experience the story as it unfolds through that close perspective, so we can understand the constructs and contexts that Dave mentions above. By contrast, revealing a character’s internal journey is more difficult to achieve in film, and relies on techniques such as mood, sound, lighting, and narration. Perhaps that explains why those tired clichés have persisted, particularly in film, and why some people may see no real harm in it. After all, these other films do it. It’s just a bit of fun. Not meant to be taken seriously. Except these stigmatising tropes can be extremely damaging to people who are struggling. To have our experience demonised and trivialised in this way. Mental illness doesn’t make us all evil serial killers. I don’t even own a chainsaw.
Photo below by Matthew Ball on Unsplash
What’s the importance of sensitivity reading in dark fiction – and any fiction, really?
Dave: Using sensitivity readers is an important part of getting things right, especially when it comes to the accurate representation of the lived experience, be that mental illness or any other aspect of a person’s life. Many writers embrace this concept, although some suggest only getting a view of a small number of people cannot be considered representative, which we can understand—but it should not be an excuse to not even try. When engaging even a small cohort, the writer is demonstrating a willingness to understand and make more accurate representations of the people, places, and cultures they are writing about in their work. It’s incredibly important for any serious writer to embrace such practices, as doing so promotes authenticity and improves storytelling.
Lee: I’m always trying to improve my writing: with each new work I hope to extend my practice and create something which touches hearts and resonates widely. To ensure my work is as polished and authentic as it can be, to write what I hope is beautiful, relevant horror, I draw on deep research (primary and secondary), workshops and professional development, and the input of critique partners, editors, beta readers, and sensitivity readers. And this applies for whatever topic I might be writing about, mental illness or otherwise. I think if we make sensitivity reading part of our usual practice, then it can only enhance the quality of our work. Since horror is already considered the ugly stepsister of literature, I see no reason to give naysayers fodder for their prejudice.
Do you have any tips for writers looking to protect and care for their own mental health, especially if writing about dark topics?
Lee: Horror helps! I should say upfront here that my lived experience is of a lifetime of anxiety and depression, and I suspect I am neurospicy too, although that last one has never been diagnosed. Like many writers, I find some catharsis in putting my lived experience, or aspects of my lived experience, on the page, even if that experience is couched in metaphor and worldbuilding and isn’t necessarily something that may be readily recognisable by readers who may not share that same psychosis. There’s something freeing about the act of being vulnerable and releasing those thoughts through fiction. Perhaps it is because writing creates distance from the issue, or perhaps it is because sharing the problem through story is a way of feeling seen and acknowledged. Reading is a huge release for me for the same reasons, and there is the added plus of being distracted from our everyday for a moment, of allowing ourselves to be transported elsewhere and entertained. Otherwise, when I need a break away from dark ruminating thoughts, I take long walks with my dog, soak in the spa pool, chat online with my daughter, or watch a movie. I give myself permission to create bad watercolour paintings. Is it weird that I also find power washing the driveway soothing?
Dave: Good mental health is important to everyone and improving that is both individual and multifactorial, but for genre creatives, the act of creating is in itself a vehicle for maintaining mental wellbeing. The link between positive mental health recovery and creativity is well-established. Over the past five years or so, many fans of the horror genre have told us that they find the genre therapeutic, that the human ordeals and traumas—written or drawn on the page or shown on the screen—reflects their own lived experience and day to day struggles. As a creative, it is difficult to not have aspects of your own life experience, even if it is exaggerated to some degree, informing your work. In some respects, it offers greater authenticity which, as we’ve said, can only be a good thing for a writer’s work and their readers. For my part, I do a lot of road running as this forces me away from the screen for an hour or so, as well as the associated mental and physical health benefits. Of course, reading a good book and watching much-loved horror movies comes a close second!
Lee & Dave: Thanks so much for having us, Lauren!
This Way Lies Madness, part of Flame Tree’s Beyond & Within series, is now available. It features stories from writers including Ramsey Campbell, Kayleigh Dobbs, Jonathan Maberry, Stephen Volk, Cynthia Pelayo, Alma Katsu, Tim Waggoner, Alan Baxter, and Marie O’Regan.
Meet the anthologists
Dave Jeffery is a British Fantasy Award and The Bridport Prize nominated writer of speculative and dystopian fiction. He has written 19 novels and 3 collections and is recipient of the Horror Writer’s Association Mentor of the Year Award. His screenplay adaptation of his Moods Swings collection was a finalist in the 13 Horror.com Screenwriting Contest, 2025. Prior to his retirement in 2019 to write full time, Jeffery worked as a mental health practitioner for 35 years and remains an active mental health advocate within the horror community. He is an anthologist with Flame Tree Press and his current book This Way Lies Madness (co-edited with Lee Murray) was released in September 2025. His next novel, False Prophet is released October 3rd through Eerie River Publishing. Read more at www.davejefferyauthor.com
Lee Murray ONZM (Officer of the New Zealand Order of Merit) is a writer, editor, poet and screenwriter from Aotearoa New Zealand, a Shirley Jackson Award and five-time Bram Stoker Award® winner. A USA Today bestselling author with more than forty titles to her credit, including novels, collections, anthologies, nonfiction, poetry, and several books for children, Lee holds a New Zealand Prime Minister’s Award for Literary Achievement in Fiction, and is an Honorary Literary Fellow of the New Zealand Society of Authors. Among her recent works are feature film Grafted (directed by Sasha Rainbow), horror anthology This Way Lies Madness (Flame Tree Press) co-edited with Dave Jeffery, and prose-poetry collection, NZSA Cuba Press Prize-winner Fox Spirit on a Distant Cloud (The Cuba Press). Read more at www.leemurray.info
